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Michael Harari
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Centurax wrote:Still not sure why CCP and other groups seem to think that having a cloak on a battleship is a bad thing, they will make the platform expensive and a desirable target for those looking to pad kill mails as they are that much harder to find and kill.
Because battleships are balanced around having high dps and high ehp, but not being able to easily choose fights. |
Michael Harari
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Centurax wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Because battleships are balanced around having high dps and high ehp, but not being able to easily choose fights. Why is being able to choose a fight with a battleship a bad thing?
Because being good at everything is called being overpowered.
Its like asking why interceptors cant do 800 dps. |
Michael Harari
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:41:00 -
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Arthur Aihaken wrote:CCP Rise wrote:We may need to make more changes to get it established as the aspirational ship that we want it to be, but I still think a lot of the problems here are related to cost. If the Nestor was 500mil I doubt this discussion would be as common. We'll see how the new drops coming soon affect price and if we still have this problem we can look at making more changes. Yes, cost is probably the key issue here - and yes, if it were priced between between $500-$600 million that would certainly make it more appealing. However, the Nestor still lacks enough power grid and capacitor to be effectively utilized. To really be useful in wormhole space it needs a Covert Ops cloak.
Im not sure people who fly 7b pve vindicators while suspect 1j from jita are really credible when they complain about prices.
Same goes for people who fly arty tengus. |
Michael Harari
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Centurax wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Centurax wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Because battleships are balanced around having high dps and high ehp, but not being able to easily choose fights. Why is being able to choose a fight with a battleship a bad thing? Because being good at everything is called being overpowered. Its like asking why interceptors cant do 800 dps. Battleships are balanced around poor mobility. Covops cloak effectively gives incredible mobility to ships that can fit it. Well an interceptor with 800 dps is pointless that we can agree on, but this isn't the case of making a battleship overpowered, given CCPs design elements for a covert ops ship a Covert ops battleship will be fast, lightly armed (maybe only capable of doing 800 to 1000 dps) and have a poor tank, so a glass cannon with a cloak. It isn't like you would necessary have fleets of covert ops battleships attacking 0.0 systems because it isn't cost effective when you can have a T1 ship do the same job probably better, but you would use them to strike high risk and well protected targets. Covert ops warships should probably be treated as the Cavalry of the Eve world, fast lightly armed ships that can apply dps and then get out, the stealth bomber is the best example of that, it would be good to have similar battlecruiser or battleship sized versions with different roles. However in the case of the Nestor it is performing a different role in which a covert ops cloak would make it firstly more desirable and secondly more use able.
If thats what you want, just take a post-it note, write battleship on it, and whenever you look at the stratios put the post-it over the descrption.
Also, of course you would have fleets of covops battleships attacking systems. You would use them to bridge in under cyno jammers and kill the cyno jammer. Also hunting ratters in cyno jammed system.
I am also very confused when you claim stealth bombers are fast. Stealth bombers are slower than many cruisers. They are among the slowest frigates, even slower than caldari afs. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Centurax wrote:Michael Harari wrote:If thats what you want, just take a post-it note, write battleship on it, and whenever you look at the stratios put the post-it over the descrption. That was an example of how CCP would have to treat them because some will view anything else as overpowered. I personally think this Overpowered stuff is a load of crap and I would see them be much more powerful than that, and the same goes for a whole variety of ship classes. No ship in Eve is even closed to what I would call Overpowered, and if someone should ever find a good argument for why one is then instead of making it worse like the Drake (just an example I think everyone might be familiar with of there have been many others), why not try brining the other ships up to that ships level for once.
You want a ship that:
1) Does 800-1000 dps
2) Has a poor tank
3) Has covops cloak
4) Is "fast"
The stratios can be fit to do all of this. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Centurax wrote:[
Back to the main point of this thread so the Nestor would be better with a cov ops cloak
I cant really name a ship that wouldnt be better with more bonuses.
And yes, your specifications are overpowered. You want a ship with high dps, even for a battleship, high tank, even for a battleship, logistics capabilities and the fight dictation power of a covops cloak. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Centurax wrote:
How would you change this to be less overpowered in you opinion?
Role Bonuses:
Can fit covert ops cloak
Cannot warp while cloaked
300% penalty to sensor recalibration time
75% penalty to cloaked velocity |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Centurax wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Centurax wrote:
How would you change this to be less overpowered in you opinion?
Role Bonuses: Can fit covert ops cloak Cannot warp while cloaked 300% penalty to sensor recalibration time 75% penalty to cloaked velocity Cannot use black ops bridge So in other words turn a covertops cloak into a prototype cloak, very constructive argument. Nestor is too big to use a covertops bridge anyway so that is pointless, cant even jump a blackops battleship on one of those, that is why they have jump drives.
Thats an improved cloak, and it leaves the scan res penalty off.
And yes you can bridge battleships. People occasionally do this to be able to double jump very quickly. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2014.02.21 13:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:
but if the ship is gonna be able to use a covert ops cloak then it needs to have a tradeoff.....
Covert Ops cloaks already have penalties built into the cloak itself. In addition, this ship is already terrible with far too low PG, and useless bonuses that don't actually work. So, you could slap a covert ops cloak onto it and you wouldn't see any OP.
Covops cloaks have no penalties |
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